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26-11-2015 4:21 pm  #1


help me please

Hi all,

I think I posted my story into the wrong forum, I am sorry I still have to figure out how does this website work. I think I posted it to Information that customs do not want you to have and I can't copy and paste here, I don't know why. Sorry again.

No problem-now corrected    eezy

Last edited by blackpanther (26-11-2015 6:08 pm)

 

26-11-2015 4:34 pm  #2


Re: help me please

blackpantherMemberhttp://images.boardhost.com/icons/1/user_online.png
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 Re: DownloadsHi everyone,

I wish we meet under different circumstances. I travelled back from Hungary yesterday and on the Luton Airport a lady officer from the Border Force seized my cigarettes, as she said she believed I want to sell it, even after that, I was willing to answer her questions and I told her from the beginning I have cigarettes for own use for me and my fiance.

Her probleme was it was different type but I mentioned to here I smoke the menthol and my partner the regular and there was 3 sleeves of Pall Mall as my mother purchased all of those for me as gift and they didn't have enough marboro in the shop so she bought the 3 Pall Mall. I also have a pack of (10*40g) Golden virginia I bought those on the airport as my partner wanted to try to roll, how long it lasts, if it is better, and cost lower.

I even mentioned it we both are hard smokers and I said it will last for 3-4 months, and I told here I brought this amount because I know I don't go home for a while now, and I mentioned I travelled couple of times in this year to see my orthodontist as I was wearing the breaces but the doctor took it off, so I don't have to go anymore.  I said I was travelling 4 times but I checked and it was 6, (unfortunately I was counting the tax year under pressure from April, and before that I was twice as well, but I was so nervous I didn't even know I am a woman or a man. I have never been in this kind of situation, treat me as a criminal I never have even a parking ticket or anything.) Anyway she thought I am travelling all the time with that amount of cigarette, but I said now as I don't have all the time that money and my mother wraped it in a box for Chrismas as present, and the lady didn't like it also, she said it was hidden, but I said how can it be hidden if everything is in the luggage? Should I carry it in my arms and I told her on the beginning what is in it.

She was even asking what my parents are doing and how much me and my partner earn  where I work and how much we spend a month, but I didn't really know I told here it's always different, I always buy what we need, it was a very long conversation and from the beginning she was very rude. I was one of the firsts who was stopped and the last who leaved. I even asked her why she is so mean to me, why she can't talk to me politely. She even asked me if I get benefits from the country and I said no, and I never did, since I am living here I work as full-time and pay everything with my own money.

Anyway on my other trips I was going to the orthodontist as well, and I was going always olny with small cabbing baggage, so she shouldn't say that I am a smuggler as I can't fit that much cigarette in a small hand bag. I even told here she can contact the surgery they speak english there as they have lots of patients from other countries, to prove I am going time by time, but she said she doesn't care she is not going to call them. She even started to talk about my mother why she is buying for me cigarettes if she can't afford it but I told her as I said before, I am giving her money time by time, so after that she was like why she is buying on that money, I gave her, cigarette for me and I said becuase she saved it and as I said she gave as a Christmas present. I didn't hear  properly as I mentioned to her because I have a very bad cold and from the pressure on the flight my ears got completely blocked and next to it because english is not my first language there were 2 words I didn't understand and I asked her what does it mean as I don't understand and she just kept repeat the same word and she didn't even ask me if I need any help with translation or understanding. I am fluent english, but as it is not my first language, there are words of course what I don't know what does it mean.

She was so mean guys, I saw the other officers even they took the cigarettes from other people they haven't been that mean. She was very very bad from the first moment. In the end she told me to sign here notes, I asked do I have to, she said yes, so I did but I asked her to correct a thing and she didn't want to do it, because I told her I didn't say that thing, and she said yes I did, so I said I don't sign it until she does not correct it, in the end she did.

Anyway I asked here what to do and where to go or if she could give me some information, but she said she won't help me as she doesn't know and anyway is not her job and she sent me away. I found this forum now, so I hope you guys could give me some advice where to start. I know I have to get a copy of her notes as she didn't provide me one, and I have to do the notice of claim form. Could anyone give me a link to download those please? And if anyone can give me advice.

In the and she took 6600 cigarettes and 400g tobacco. She even asked me if I have drugs on me... I know if I don't claim they will send me a letter to pay lots of money on the top of that. What are my prospects and what if I lose? Do I have to pay lots of money as I can't afford it. Also do I need a lawyer? Thanks. I apologize if I wrote something wrong or you can't understand.  


  •  

Last edited by eezyrider (26-11-2015 4:43 pm)


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26-11-2015 6:53 pm  #3


Re: help me please

If you do not appeal you will likely face duty and penalty charges of somewhere between £1500 and £2000 at a very rough estimate.
If you appeal and lose at court costs would be around £1500 to £2500 plus the duty and penalty charges. However if you lose you can appeal to Crown Court and have the case heard by a ''proper'' qualified judge, usually at no extra cost.
If you chose to use a solicitor or barrister their costs would be ''thousands''.

6600 cigs is not an unreasonable amount and we have had members who have won cases involving double that amount. However it will probably take 12 months or so  to resolve and there is a lot of work in preparing the case.

Those are the facts and you would have to decide yourself how you wanted to proceed.

I would advise to send in an appeal (NOC) and apply for restoration. Send for a SAR for a copy of the officers notebook.

I say 6600 cigs is not unreasonable because it fits in with your estimate of 3 to 4 months usage. It equates to approx. 60 per day between 2 people, 30 each.

Once you have decided we can advise further

Forgot to add, please keep as much on the open forum as possible rather than by Private Message.

Last edited by eezyrider (26-11-2015 6:57 pm)


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26-11-2015 7:30 pm  #4


Re: help me please

Thank you so much for your reply eezyrider. OMG!!!! So much money. They didn't mention anything about that, I have to pay a lots of extra money as well on the top of that they took our cigs. I am so desperated. Never ever happened to me anything like this, I didn't even thought about it. So I have to appeal anyway otherwise they give me a huge penalty. I am not the strongest person, I mean I am very sensitive, I don't know how I will do it on court... but I have to!!!! ( I was crying all day today ) I didn't even tell to anyone, apart from my fiance, and I wont, because it is such a shame on me... I am not a criminal! Could you please send me a link where I can get these forms (SAR, NOC and the restoration form) and if you could tell me how the court part goes. I don't have money for solicitors unfortunately. So if you lose  at court, and you go to the Crown Court and you lose there as well what you have to pay? Do you know around how much money we are talking about for the duty and penalty charges, just an approximate number? Thanks. 

     Thread Starter
 

27-11-2015 9:36 am  #5


Re: help me please

Links for SAR
http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=1913 Fill in (or download & fill-in) the document, then print it out  and post it with your Money..

Dont Forget to make an subject access request, you should provide:


  • a valid cheque or postal order for £10, payable to ‘the Home Office Accounting Officer’
  • enough personal information to identify you, like a copy of your passport or driver’s licence, original utility bills and your Home Office reference number if you have one
  • an original, signed authority from the person you’re applying for if you’re applying for someone else - we can’t accept copies



Garry

Last edited by N2Dgarry (27-11-2015 9:43 am)


START HERE, By answering these questions. http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=1526
Useful documents for download : http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewforum.php?id=34
Goods been seized, Start here.  http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=78
SOT Thanks to TBD. http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=373
 

27-11-2015 11:24 am  #6


Re: help me please

Guidance for NOC and restoration:-http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=78


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27-11-2015 9:06 pm  #7


Re: help me please

Thanks Garry and Eezy,

Could you tell me please what is home office reference number? Also my utility bills made by my landlord and he prints out for us and we pay for him, as we are living in an annexe house and it is connected to the main house. If I make a copy of those are they okay?  If I understood right I have to put the cheque or postal order in the same envelope together with my SAR and just send it? Thanks again.

Last edited by blackpanther (27-11-2015 9:55 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

29-11-2015 6:03 pm  #8


Re: help me please

Hi guys,

I am not sure, but could my restoration letter and my notice of claim letter be the same or do I have to write 2 different ones and send those separately? Also do I have to send copies of my evidences ( receipts, fligts from the past year a copy of my saving balance etc.) in the same envelope with those or I have to send just the restoration and NOC itself and later on when they reply send the evidence? I am a bit confused, I never had to do anything like this, sorry if my questions are stupid. Thanks.

     Thread Starter
 

29-11-2015 8:13 pm  #9


Re: help me please

blackpanther wrote:

Hi guys,

I am not sure, but could my restoration letter and my notice of claim letter be the same or do I have to write 2 different ones and send those separately? Also do I have to send copies of my evidences ( receipts, fligts from the past year a copy of my saving balance etc.) in the same envelope with those or I have to send just the restoration and NOC itself and later on when they reply send the evidence? I am a bit confused, I never had to do anything like this, sorry if my questions are stupid. Thanks.

One letter would do the job.
 You can send evidence if you wish but you don't have to.


Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.
 

30-11-2015 5:08 pm  #10


Re: help me please

Hi,
How I have to specify the cigarette what I brought, because I brought for 2 of us for my fiance and myself. Do I have to speciefy his as a gift?

     Thread Starter
 

30-11-2015 6:21 pm  #11


Re: help me please

There are different ways to do the NOC, it's your choice.

The bare minimum requires that you give notice of appeal within 1 month or you could include all relevant information you think is necessary to try and change their mind before the matter goes to court. Alternatively you could give notice and then send another letter before the month is up, which includes the additional information.

On the same first letter add that you wish to apply for restoration.

It is not a requirement that you give any additional information but it may be to your benefit. What additional information you give is up to you. You are in effect giving your defence as to why the goods should not be seized. As regards what is relevant, opinions will vary so be guided mostly by what you think.

Goods for own use also means any goods you give for free to another person but you can specify xxx cigs were for your fiancé if you wish.


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01-12-2015 7:24 pm  #12


Re: help me please

Thank you so much, you are so helpful. So if I understood right you think the best way is to send a letter to change their mind with all relevant information. After that, within the 30 days send my notice of claim and restoration 2 in 1. Am I right? Do I have to send all these letters to the same address? National Post Seizure Unit, Border Force, 3rd Floor, West Point, Erington Street, Plymouth PL4  9LT

     Thread Starter
 

01-12-2015 7:42 pm  #13


Re: help me please

blackpanther wrote:

Thank you so much, you are so helpful. So if I understood right you think the best way is to send a letter to change their mind with all relevant information. After that, within the 30 days send my notice of claim and restoration 2 in 1. Am I right? Do I have to send all these letters to the same address? National Post Seizure Unit, Border Force, 3rd Floor, West Point, Erington Street, Plymouth PL4  9LT

No, send it all off in one letter incl the NOC
 


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03-12-2015 2:07 pm  #14


Re: help me please

Hi Guys,
In the SAR form there is a question with home office reference number and port number. I don't think I have any of those. What are these? What if I don't have them?

     Thread Starter
 

03-12-2015 2:41 pm  #15


Re: help me please

blackpanther wrote:

Hi Guys,
In the SAR form there is a question with home office reference number and port number. I don't think I have any of those. What are these? What if I don't have them?

Ignore them.

Make sure ask for all and any information including electronic records, in particular relating to your stop/search at xxxx but not excluding other information held.


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03-12-2015 2:51 pm  #16


Re: help me please

Thanks Eezy,

So shall I tick any of these?
1.Printouts from our computerised casework database (this will
include some caseworker notes, a summary of immigration
history, decisions, appeals. This is not a complete copy of your
Home Office file e.g. this means it does not include documents you sent to us) 2.Home Office files (including Port, NASS)

3. Work Permit
4. Visa Application Forms (out of country applications)
5. Detention Records (including removal escort data)
6. Landing cards

or

Shall I just not tick any of these and go straight away to Part B-Specific Data and write I want the copy of the BF officer lady's notebook and everything they have in this case?

Sorry if I am pain in the ass but I never have done this kind of paperwork before.

     Thread Starter
 

03-12-2015 8:54 pm  #17


Re: help me please

Go to part B then as per my post number 15 above (request notebook copy also)

 


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05-12-2015 7:43 pm  #18


Re: help me please

Hi Guys,

I almost finished my NOC and restoration 2 in1 letter, I will send it on Monday together with my SAR. I will use the new one what you shared few days ago. Any suggestion what is important to put in the NOC? Something what is very useful and I can kick their a** with it and make them change their mind? Does it ever happened they changed their mind after an NOC letter, or they always take you to the court? It happened to me, I couldn't really read the officer's notebook, I needed to ask her "what are these words", because she didn't have nice handwriting, is it good if I put this in my letter? If anyone has something to share please let me know.Thanks.

     Thread Starter
 

15-12-2015 6:02 pm  #19


Re: help me please

Hi everyone,

I sent my appeal against the legality of the seizure and request for restoration and I recieved a letter from Border Force, they've got my letter and they will now begin processing my case. Do I have to do anything now or just waiting for further letters? What is the next step?

     Thread Starter
 

16-12-2015 2:19 pm  #20


Re: help me please

blackpanther wrote:

Hi everyone,

I sent my appeal against the legality of the seizure and request for restoration and I recieved a letter from Border Force, they've got my letter and they will now begin processing my case. Do I have to do anything now or just waiting for further letters? What is the next step?

All the info you want is here.

http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=78
 


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