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12-5-2016 6:19 pm  #1

Post moved to own topic Shiso123

As title..........

Offline Registered: 13-3-2015Posts: 3http://cdn.boardhost.com/mail_light.png
 Private MessageRe: A16 closed- 5th May 2016

Hi there
I am new to this forum and would like to say thanks for letting me join.
I'm trying to help my father get some advice if anyone can do this as he is having trouble trying to communicate on here haha. He is 77 though so still learning.

On a serious note he has been stopped by border force 6 times since 2014 and had his tobacco seized and now duty demands and wrong doing charges have arrived. He may sound like a wrong one but can assure you he has only ever tried to bring back tobacco for himself and our family. I saw on one topic that someone may be able to advise a little and tried using my fathers member name booboo to contact him but it came up that I had to post 3 times before I could contact the member nomo. 
We are getting desperate for any help from anyone so would really appreciate if someone could point us in the right direction

cheers Shiso

Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.


12-5-2016 6:27 pm  #2

Re: Post moved to own topic Shiso123

We can't offer advice without specific information such as how often he travels, what quantities of goods, whether or not he has asked for restoration or what is the current state of affairs. Has he got any appeals in against duty assessments and/or penalties and so on. What exactly do you want advice on?

Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

     Thread Starter

17-5-2016 8:05 pm  #3

Re: Post moved to own topic Shiso123

Basically he only started to travel in 2014 with family or friends that he had met by booking on the euro shopper buses and didn't bring back tobacco every time.

The first stop was April 2014 at hull, I was travelling with him and another 3 friends and we're all interviewed with 6kg of tobacco each. I asked to be with my father because the customs bloke was being very clever towards my dad and trying to put words into his mouth. He asked if any of the 24 grandkids did any work for him like cutting his grass n so on and when dad said yes course they do the nasty get said so that would be payment in kind??? I was fuming n said to him so if you cut your mothers grass n she cooks you dinner then that's payment in kind too! I also said there's no way we'll be signing any notebook n he said who's advised you to do that. I didn't say I'd been on the n2d forum. He shouted for another officer to interview me and said he would do my dads. Four of us came away with our tobacco and my dad didn't.

He chose to take it to court and in the meantime he travelled again in December of that year to get xmas gifts, he was stopped at Dover and once again his tobacco products was seized. The reason was because he had his tobacco seized in the April although he had explained to them that it was due to be heard in court on the 22nd and this tobacco was for own use and x as gifts.

I informed their solicitor involved with the case Victoria Fitzgerald at home office on 18th December that my dad was ill and if he wasn't going to be any better on the court date what would happen regarding his tobacco. She replied which I have got on paper Thank you very much for your email and confirm that we will not pursue costs in this matter. I also spoke to her on the phone because I was very untrusting that if dad didn't go they would claim costs. She asked for dad to sign a disclaimer saying he would no longer contest the seizure. I did not do this straight away and she contacted me once again advising to tell dad there wouldn't be any charges and she was worried about his health. Dad finally caved in after family members pushed him into doing so because he was really not good and suffers from heart disease and only a couple of years before had an heart attack.

The affairs at the moment are that he did get demands for the excise duty and wrong doing. He has tried with getting help from the mp and in short we are no further forward because the reply to the MPs letter to chief executive uk border force is that they say in this case the tobacco was seized because the individual was in possession of significantly more than the minimum indicative level of 1kg hand rolling tobacco. This determines wether goods are for a travellers own use or for commercial use including frequency and purpose of travel and volume of product involved. Border force seize the tobacco on the grounds that it was considered to be for commercial purposes and so the details of the seizure were passed to hmrc for a post seizure audit which resulted in a excise duty assessment and penalty.

Dad is intending to take this to tribunal because he has NOT done anything wrong and now every time he wants to travel his passport is marked. Obviously there is lots more information but impossible to put everything on here. I'm just hoping that someone can help him no matter how small. Can I add that he's sat at side of me at moment swearing like a trooper and I so wish he could learn how to post by himself lol.

Hope I haven't confused you. Looking forward to a reply but I won't be able to read until I visit him again tomorrow tea.

Thanks for any advice Shiso


17-5-2016 10:35 pm  #4

Re: Post moved to own topic Shiso123

OK, starting to get the picture now.

So Pop had 6kgs seized in April 2014 and more seized in Dec 2014. Due to ill health he withdrew his appeal. I take he did not apply for restoration?

He has now received duty assessments and penalty notices for the 2 seizures.

If I am correct so far I think there are 2 ways to proceed. There is no time limit to apply for restoration so if he did not do so at the time he could make an application. However you cannot argue the legality of the seizure using this route and there is little argument anybody can put forward to get the goods restored.

The other option is to challenge the duty and penalty demand. If you take this to tribunal you will have to pay the demands unless you apply for hardship relief. See:-


HMRC can apply to have your application to the tribunal ''struck out'' unless you put a valid argument forward. You could argue that at least some of the goods were your own and ask for the amount to be reduced. Alternatively we have some recent information from European lawyers which clearly states that HMRC cannot demand duty on goods which have been destroyed as yours almost certainly will have been. However this does not stop them from making a penalty demand but would see the total amount reduced by about  60+%.


At this point we are starting to get a bit technical so you will probably have to digest info so far and then come back.

Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

     Thread Starter

18-5-2016 4:05 pm  #5

Re: Post moved to own topic Shiso123

Thanks very much for the reply.
Dad is wanting to challenge the duty penalty and demands and would like any advise how to go about this. Regards Shiso


18-5-2016 4:38 pm  #6

Re: Post moved to own topic Shiso123

It should state on the paperwork you have, how to appeal.

The personal importation of excise goods is covered by the regulations as laid down in EU Directive 2008/118ec.

I refer in particular to Article 37:-

 ''......in the event of the total destruction or irretrievable loss of the excise goods during their transport in a Member State other than the Member State in which they were released for consumption, ........ as a consequence of authorisation by the competent authorities of that Member State, the excise duty shall not be chargeable in that Member State.''.

I submit therefore that HMRC cannot legally demand excise duty on goods that they have destroyed and this is the basis of my appeal.

Further to this I have access to a legal opinion by a group of European lawyers which confirms this is the case

Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

     Thread Starter

19-6-2016 3:20 pm  #7

Re: Post moved to own topic Shiso123

Hi eezyrider
Just to update you on what dad decided to do regarding our his problem.
He chose to appeal against the duty demands and only yesterday did he receive a letter back explaining what is happening now. His letter came from Solicitors office &elegant services, Appeals & reviews.
It states that they they will conduct a review and have 45 days to do so. The review is against the decision made by officer Talisha Mills and they will notify the conclusion.
It says after consideration of the application and examination of the circumstances related to this request it will be decided if a review is appropriate.

It goes on If a review is considered to be appropriate, it will be carried out by Pauline Loughridge in this office and when concluded this officer will write to advise the review conclusion.

If the review conclusion has not been notified within the specified review period the decision will be treated as upheld.

At the conclusion of the review, there may be the right to appeal to the independent tribunal service, and this will be notified in our review conclusion letter. Please note, however that there is no entitlement to lodge an appeal until the review process is concluded.

They then ask if my dad has any further information he would like to be considered to send it to the review officer at the solicitors address above.
Dad is now waiting to hear from them again and I will update you with any more updates from then. Cheers for helping


19-6-2016 3:45 pm  #8

Re: Post moved to own topic Shiso123

Thanks for letting us know.

The only advice at this point is to make sure you don't miss any of the appeal time limits on the letters they send you.

Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

     Thread Starter

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