Home of N2D.

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



30-7-2016 7:52 pm  #1


Lost at Hull

1. Bf solicitor makes his statement
2. Dibble is put on stand and questioned by his solicitor
3. Then i got to question dibble
4. Bf solicitor questions dibble again
5. Then im put on stand
6. Bf solicitor questions me
7. I get to say what happened on the day to mags
8. Bf solicitor questions me again
9. Bf solicitor gets to make a "2nd Statement"
10. I did not get to read my final statement

Went in approx 2.30pm, came out approx 5.15pm!!!!

Last edited by thebourne (30-7-2016 7:58 pm)

 

30-7-2016 7:53 pm  #2


Re: Lost at Hull

Spoke to bf solicitor before hearing, gave him bundle... was suprised to see letter i sent with appeal explaining about dibble saying they were confiscating tobacco bcos they believe my friend had funded me. He then told me a few little things and that he would ask me one or two questions like "did your mate fund me" which i would reply no he said.
1. Bf solicitor makes his case about the seizure
2. Dibble questioned... i noted he said my disposable income was a £100 less that what was writen in his book
3. i questioned dibble but he was quite avasive.. apperently he took £100 off disposable income for bits and bats.. i pushed on this but moved on when it was going knowhere.
I asked if negative stops where recorded but he claimed not to understand... then i explained that its a stop and seach thats negative.... he said yes, there noted in the notebook

What knocked me back was this question i put to him
"Have you any proof that I purchased goods on my previous trips, please answer yes or no"... he started mubling on with some explanation so i stopped him and asked him again Yes or no?
Thats when the clerk of the court stopped me, told me to let him explain and that its not like on tv :/.. dibble rambled on for 5 mins, and continued rambling with all questions i asked.

I was hit for six on this bcos he rambled on and on with explanation and not just with that, with any question i asked hence why i was in there that long.

6. The bf solicitor tore into me like you wouldnt believe claiming that the letter in the bundle was just something i made up and said i was trying to tarnish dibbles good name. I explained that it was what dibble had told and why would i appeal with something i made up. ( The reason dibble had told me was not writen in the notebook....appealed Nov2015, recieved copy of notebook Jan2016)

7. Clerk stells me to tell the court what happend that day which i did from memory. Mags ask me about the stop, told them passport check asked what i had etc

8. Bf Solicitor starts again... saying i said i brought 4 packs from previous hols, i was gobsmacked.. first i hear.. i told him he must have missheard, he starts calling me a lyer :/.. to be honest, my throat was dry and thought he may have missheard but now i know it was just one of there sneaky tactics.

9. Then bf solicitor make another statement saying i fabricated thing, all bad studd etc

10. I stand up to read my statement and the clerk stops me saying "it was your tobacco for personal use etc etc" She said it so fast i couldnt keep up with her... lasted about 10 seconds.
I managed to show the parking ticket i got at p&o car park explaing that if my intentions where for trade, wouldnt it make sence to take my car.. i had funds. I doubt if they heard it.

Anyways, the mags leave court to delibarate, then bf solicitor starts telling clerk that if they find in my favour that the seizure was legal and that no costs should be granted and if they find in his favour he had cost sheet prepared and past to me  (cert 144 i quess)...i mean, the mags hadnt even decided! Also clerk says that if i am unsucessful then paper is sighned for tobacco to be destroyed but then she say it would have been destroyed immediately after they siezed it but you will get the cost of it if you win!

Mags took about 30 minutes.. Said that the made a decision on "The ballance of probability" and found in there favour.

Clerk passes cost sheet to mags... over £1,700. Then suprise suprise, mags knock about £500 off telling me it'll be over £1,200. Guess they felt a little sorry for me :/

Other little things like dibble said he's never heard of 2008/118/EC

Also, clerk said the appeal letter was not dated.. she held it up but i couldnt see from where i was.. unfortunately i believe there copies where not dated as i copy/pasted it for original without date on    clerk gave me bundles back but neglected to give me bf sols bundle and the letter was missing out of the mags bundle.
Mags never saw there bundle fully, just on sheets clerk showed them.

Last edited by thebourne (30-7-2016 10:05 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

30-7-2016 10:37 pm  #3


Re: Lost at Hull

We have in the past complained about magistrates and in one case, at Hull I think, the case was stopped after objections and a new bench installed to hear the case. Whatever the Clerk says the mags are still in charge of their own court.

Take it to appeal before a Crown Court judge. You will find the barristers cannot do as they please there and there is no Clerk to disrupt your case.


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

 
 

31-7-2016 8:02 am  #4


Re: Lost at Hull

Yeah, i believe the mags were incharge and i understand fully what you mean by thinking on your feet. The problem i had was getting my evidence across! I could have got it across allot better but i was all over the place to be honest.. hence the verdict was based on probability! Its quite frustrating bcos my evidence is there!

 

     Thread Starter
 

15-8-2016 7:04 am  #5


Re: Lost at Hull

thebourne wrote:

Yeah, i believe the mags were incharge and i understand fully what you mean by thinking on your feet. The problem i had was getting my evidence across! I could have got it across allot better but i was all over the place to be honest.. hence the verdict was based on probability! Its quite frustrating bcos my evidence is there!

 

 Don't worry, my case was pretty much the same in Magistrates. Clerk and HO barrister were in charge there. In Crown was different, the same barrister was so little on front of proper judge.


Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.
 

15-8-2016 8:03 am  #6


Re: Lost at Hull

Was a nightmare Piotrek, but i have appealed and Eezy's helping me polish up things. Also posted a letter of complaint and hopefully but unlikely it may stop this happening to others.

     Thread Starter
 

15-8-2016 12:58 pm  #7


Re: Lost at Hull

Thebourne good, hope you will win in Crown.


Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.
 

16-8-2016 9:03 am  #8


Re: Lost at Hull

I hope so too, thanks mate

     Thread Starter
 

16-8-2016 5:25 pm  #9


Re: Lost at Hull

When I was at Hull the Clerk just about ran the show. In fact it was a disgrace the Clerk and Magistrates may as well of been on first name terms with the 2 BF ****s.
The Clerk stopped me every time I tried to get a good question in or attempted to point out the BF had contradicted herself twice...they just sailed past it. I knew I had a good case but I was not allowed to present  it...... I am lucky I can think fast on my feet and would have had the BF shemale in knots given half a chance.
The inevitable happened and found guilty which I knew before the decision was made with how it had gone. With the price of my baccy 7kg and costs I was looking at a loss of £2500...I was devestated.
With encouragement and help from this forum I went to Crown Court fully armed and prepared again thanks to finding this forum.
Guess what they never turned up. I had to go in front of the Judge JR and explain my case. Even he said 7kg was not excessive and it is my right to obtain goods at a more favourable price from a fellow EU state if I wish to.
He said even if the BF had turned up he would have found it hard from them to prove I had acted illegally as it was not for me to prove my innocence but for them to prove my guilt.
In the Crown Court you have the right to state your case no matter how long it takes that is law. As these brilliant folk will tell you on here tell the truth, don`t waiver from your story and be prepared cover all angles. anticipate what you might be asked. Think if you were in their shoes what questions would you be asking to try to trip you up.
Most of all best of luck mate don`t be despondent Crown Court is a lot different to Magistrates who are just a few bored people with nothing better to do. I know this one of my wifes mates is a Magistrate and I wouldn`t let her judge a knobbly knees contest.

 

16-8-2016 7:14 pm  #10


Re: Lost at Hull

Well said Toni. Great encouragement for others!


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

 
 

17-8-2016 6:11 am  #11


Re: Lost at Hull

Excellent news Toni.  Did you get any costs?

JMK

 

17-8-2016 9:26 am  #12


Re: Lost at Hull

Toni, we have felt the devastation!! You go there knowingthe truth will prevail, you know you have'nt done anything wrong, the law will prevail you believe and then your subjected to a kangaroo court. You hit the floor so hard it's a massive shock to the system.. when i was dismissed from the court and the door closed behind me i heard them sniggering... had to drive over 300 miles back home with that feeling! 
What happened in your case has given me massive encouragement, ty toni!! The forum has helped me so much and are continueing to guide me!
I am still going through this as we speak but i would say to others, even though your feel like cutting your losses, dont walk away! take it all the way because years down the line when you think back about it, win or loose.. you can hold your head up and say i gave it my best shot, i have no regrets!!!
Ps, knobbly knees contest lmao!! Hope ya misses don't see what ya said about her mate

     Thread Starter
 

17-8-2016 10:37 am  #13


Re: Lost at Hull

JMK
My case was over 2 years ago. The only costs I got were my travel to Hull that day that was because the Judge raised it.
I did not dare push my luck and say hang on what about everthing else..I just wanted out in case he changed his mind.
As far as I know no s144 was asked for in magistrates as they won and of course one was not asked for at Crown as they were not there. I still have not accepted their  "ex gratia" payment for the cost of the baccy telling them I am going to claim compensation...but I never seem to get round to it as I spend a lot of time abroad now.....in my small mind I am winding them up which I doubt but it gives me a bit of pleasure thinking it.
I will have to get round to it maybe just a no win no fee solicitor to deal with it?
thebourne:
I am not kidding you I could not have done it without the input on here little tips what to expect, have you made sure you have this,make sure you that,have your bundle in order etc all these things helped me no end at Crown when the Judge started asking me questions as it would have at Magistrates if I had been given a chance. I would most likely of just paid the tax in the first off without this site because you do feel intimidated by it all.
I do not profess to have half the knowledge as some on this site but if anything from my experience I can help you with just send PM.
Dare not tell wife about her mate be on bread and water for a month

 

17-8-2016 11:35 am  #14


Re: Lost at Hull

toniviolet wrote:

JMK
My case was over 2 years ago. The only costs I got were my travel to Hull that day that was because the Judge raised it.
I did not dare push my luck and say hang on what about everthing else..I just wanted out in case he changed his mind.
As far as I know no s144 was asked for in magistrates as they won and of course one was not asked for at Crown as they were not there. I still have not accepted their  "ex gratia" payment for the cost of the baccy telling them I am going to claim compensation...but I never seem to get round to it as I spend a lot of time abroad now.....in my small mind I am winding them up which I doubt but it gives me a bit of pleasure thinking it.
I will have to get round to it maybe just a no win no fee solicitor to deal with it?
thebourne:
I am not kidding you I could not have done it without the input on here little tips what to expect, have you made sure you have this,make sure you that,have your bundle in order etc all these things helped me no end at Crown when the Judge started asking me questions as it would have at Magistrates if I had been given a chance. I would most likely of just paid the tax in the first off without this site because you do feel intimidated by it all.
I do not profess to have half the knowledge as some on this site but if anything from my experience I can help you with just send PM.
Dare not tell wife about her mate be on bread and water for a month

Bear in mind though you probably would not have been questioned by the judge if BF had represented themselves.

Justice must be seen to have been done. This is part of the mags clerk's job, to bring to the bench anything that a litigant in person omits to ask when cross examining. Some take it beyond reason and takeover the case as has been seen.
 


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

 
 

17-8-2016 11:41 am  #15


Re: Lost at Hull

Yes, getting lots of tips and guidence..I tend to go off track a little but eezy's usually the one to put me staright. I don't possess a quarter of the knolledge these guys have but i am learning . Polishing the bundle as we speak (with help) and it's comming along nicely. Myself, im not interested in compensation whatsoever, just want justice and even though i'll be a bag of nerves at crown i'm not worried about it too much bcos it's the truth and the truth comes easy!
Thank you toni for your help and support.... bread and water, class!!

     Thread Starter
 

17-8-2016 5:08 pm  #16


Re: Lost at Hull

thebourne wrote:

Polishing the bundle as we speak (with help) and it's comming along nicely. 

thebourne eezy`s told you about divulging too much in public .
 

 

18-8-2016 11:21 am  #17


Re: Lost at Hull

He has... have to watch out, dibbles about

     Thread Starter
 

02-10-2016 8:23 am  #18


Re: Lost at Hull

Have appealed this decision and it should go to crown where it should go!!
I realise now that mags is more "roll the dice" It could go either way but nomatter what..

Never give up!!

     Thread Starter
 

02-10-2016 8:35 am  #19


Re: Lost at Hull

There's a lot of work gone into this appeal, it would be encouraging to get the right result.

Good luck


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

 
 

02-10-2016 6:59 pm  #20


Re: Lost at Hull

eezyrider wrote:

There's a lot of work gone into this appeal, it would be encouraging to get the right result.

Good luck

There's alot of work done by you my friend.. thanks
 

     Thread Starter
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum

Disclaimer:- This forum is an open forum, and anyone can post their thoughts here (within reason). Therefore the views expressed here are those of individuals and not necessarily those of Nothing 2 Declare. We try to allow as much freedom of speech as possible, including views that some may find objectionable. This includes the views of UKBA, Border Force, HMRC, legitimate cross-border shoppers, non-legitimate importers, general public and anyone else that wishes to post.
Regarding ourselves, we categorically do not condone smuggling and neither do we condone the current tactics used against legitimate cross-border shoppers by UKBA/Border Force and HMRC. The current tactics benefit both Customs and smugglers alike.
Although some people use real names, there is no guarantee that they are who they say they are; it is impossible for us to verify identities of all members.