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06-3-2013 5:11 pm  #41


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

celticmanx wrote:

Unless another member can remember where the bullet proof template is.

http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=94
http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=373

Last edited by The Blocked Dwarf (06-3-2013 5:15 pm)


"I, uh, let her out the trunk...heard what, err, She snarled at THEM...."

http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
 

06-3-2013 5:17 pm  #42


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Oh and BD, this SOT was a revelation to the customs officer who stopped me. My recording lasts about 30 mins and you'd be lucky if there was 2 mins of conversation in that. After reading it he said he had to go and check it. I asked why. 'Just to check it was correct'. He had never seen one before and was going to phone someone to see what to do. Thats what I think.

 

06-3-2013 5:19 pm  #43


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

celticmanx wrote:

Oh and BD, this SOT was a revelation to the customs officer who stopped me..

 Then post up a redacted copy so all may see

Its not unusual for them to have to phone a friend when confronted with an SOT. As an aside there is no 'correct' way of writing an SOT...in the end it has to be what works for you. The templates work well enough as they stand but everyone has to customize them to get the full benefit.

Last edited by The Blocked Dwarf (06-3-2013 5:23 pm)


"I, uh, let her out the trunk...heard what, err, She snarled at THEM...."

http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
 

06-3-2013 5:24 pm  #44


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Statement of Truth
To whom it may concern,
I, **************, passport number­­­ ************** travelled from UK Prestwick (PIK) Airport with Ryanair flight ********** to FARO (FAO) Airport on **/02/13 (Booking ref ******).
 I returned to UK Prestwick (PIK) Airport via Ryanair flight FR*****on **/02/13.
I shall record any interview by Border Force in full
I purchased _________kg of _______________ hand rolling tobacco EU Duty Paid as well as ___________________________________ Cigarettes

I bought these goods for my own personal use (including gifts). I refer you to the following to show categorically that my goods are for personal use (including gifts) and not for a commercial purpose.

I refer you to The Excise Goods (Holding, Movement and Duty Point) Regulations 2010,  Section 13, 3 (a) (b), 4  (a-j), 5 (b)
(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1) excise goods are held for a commercial purpose if they are held—
(a) by a person other than a private individual(P)

I am a private individual.

(b) by a private individual (“P), except in a case where the excise goods are for P’s own use and were acquired in, and transported to the United Kingdom from, another Member State by P.

For my own personal use (incl. gifts),  bought in Portugal (see receipts) and transported by myself to UK (see  details above)

(4) For the purposes of determining whether excise goods referred to in the exception in paragraph (3)(b) are for P’s own use regard must be taken of—

(a) P’s reasons for having possession or control of those goods;

Personal use (incl gifts), bought and transported to UK by myself

(b) whether or not P is a revenue trader;

I am not a revenue trader

(c) P’s conduct, including P’s intended use of those goods or any refusal to disclose the intended use of those goods;

I respectively submit the following:-

____ cartons ________________________________ cigarettes for myself and
___KG of _________________________ hand rolling tobacco as gifts for various members of my family and for myself.

My conduct will be audio recorded throughout this excise interview

(d) the location of those goods;

Goods are in my carry on luggage

(e) the mode of transport used to convey those goods;

Carried personally by myself from Portugal via an aeroplane.
(f) any document or other information relating to those goods;
Receipts for the purchase.
Proof of possession of a valid credit card which could easily have been used to fund the purchase. Furthermore possession of such a credit card with a £1400 credit limit shows that professionally employed actuaries have conducted a risk assessment on my finances and have deemed me fit to hold such a facility.

(g) the nature of those goods including the nature or condition of any package or container;
Goods were sealed and not concealed; they were in my carry on luggage carried/transported by myself

(h) the quantity of those goods and, in particular, whether the quantity exceeds any of the following quantities—

•    10 litres of spirits,
•    20 litres of intermediate products (as defined in article 17(1) of Council Directive 92/83/EEC (1)
•    90 litres of wine (including a maximum of 60 litres of sparkling wine)
•    110 litres of beer,
•    800  cigarettes
•    400 cigarillos (cigars weighing no more than 3 grammes each),
•    200 cigars,
•    1 kg of any other tobacco products;
   
These are just guidelines and there are no limits for the amount one can bring in for personal use as stated in UKBA’s current ‘Notice 1, Travelling  to the UK’ and the ‘Tax information and Impact note, Protect IL1, HMRC’ where it states and l quote:-

Notice 1 ….“There are no limits on the amount of duty and/or tax paid alcohol and tobacco that you can bring into the UK as long as they are for your own use or gifts and are transported by you.

Tax information and Impact note, Protect IL1, HMRC … “MILs (guidelines) are one of a number of factors used by UK Border Agency officials in determining whether tobacco products imported from the EU are for a person's own use or are for commercial use.  They are not allowances - someone bringing in less than the MILs to resell is still breaking the law, [i]and someone bringing in more than the MILs for their own use will be unaffected.  All that is changing are the guide quantities.

“……… law-abiding individual and householder travellers who genuinely import goods for their own use will not be affected

(i) Whether P personally financed the purchase of those goods;

(j) any other circumstance that appears to be relevant.
I easily spend £100 on presents for each of my parents, my brother, my partner and my partners’ mother. Giving them these presents at anniversaries and birthdays represents a very worthwhile gift to them but at a very modest cost to me as Portugal is less expensive than the inflated UK prices.

I have travelled abroad in the past 12 months but as I don’t count the trips I’m sure you could check your own records. To offer you a guess would be inappropriate as it would simply be a guess. My passport is scanned on all of my journeys and therefore I’m sure it’s your job to do the counting for me.
_____________________________________________________________________________
I have about my person cigarette papers and a lighter.  Should you require me to roll a cigarette, l will do so as I use hand rolling tobacco in some circumstances, like when I run out of cigarettes..

5) For the purposes of the exception in paragraph (3)(b)—

(b)“own use"  includes use as a personal gift but does not include the transfer of the goods to another person for money or money’s worth (including any reimbursement of expenses incurred in connection with obtaining them).

I received no payment or reimbursement in money or money’s worth for this purchase of tobacco or cost of my travel whatsoever incurred in connection with obtaining them.
……………
l have now given all the information  you require re The Excise Goods (Holding, Movement and Duty Point) Regulations 2010, that shows my legally purchased EU duty paid tobacco are for personal use only and not held for a commercial purpose

Now please let me proceed with my legally purchased EU duty paid goods without any further let or hindrance.

Copy of this statement of truth to be retained by myself and another copy given to

UK Border Force Officer ………….…………………….              ID number ……….           

"I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true."

Signed …………………    Print name……………………………………           date …………………

Statement of Truth (__ pages) received by

UK Border Force Officer  ……………………….                           (print name)

UK Border Force ID number ………….   

Signed  …………………………….

Date      …………………..
 

 

06-3-2013 5:26 pm  #45


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

I don't even see why I bother with redacting. They know who I am. LOL. Oh and remember they DID NOT get into my luggage!!!

Last edited by celticmanx (06-3-2013 5:27 pm)

 

06-3-2013 5:46 pm  #46


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Looking on the bright side you've now got a second bite of the cherry and you need to ensure everything is in order to win the day.Just handover your sot as soon as you see him and simply say something like ''this might save some time''. If he asked where that came from say via research.
Make sure you are interviewed together. Your friend in particular is entitled to have someone with him because of medical needs. If there are any variations in your stories you will be sunk.
Personally I wouldn't park within sight of the place either-keep your car safe.

Good Luck.

Last edited by eezyrider (06-3-2013 6:01 pm)


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

 
 

06-3-2013 5:46 pm  #47


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

You and your friend should INSIST you are interviewed together, that you both have bullet proof SOTs and all the proofs, and you MUST RECORD.


print offf the foi were it states you can record the interveiw,also ask the ukbf officer to read out anything he has already wrote down,then you have a recording of this also,record everything from first entering the interveiw area and only switch off when you leave,preperation is the key ,have a back up recorder and possibly a covert one,but tell the ukbf your intention to record from the outset.

good luck.


Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.
Better to live one day as a lion than a thousand days as a sheep'

http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
 

07-3-2013 6:10 am  #48


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Does it matter that I paid for the baccy and booze using my credit cards, debit cards and cash while my friend used cash only? (stangely I have found that my credit card gives the best exchange rate compared  to Post Office, Banks, Marks and Spencer, Travel shops etc.)

     Thread Starter
 

07-3-2013 6:16 am  #49


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

It should not matter. If you have proof of payment then thats the main thing. If your friend prefers cash then good for him. I personally don't think its any of their business how you paid for it and indeed although I pay cash, my SOT states clearly that I have a credit card which I could have used and that this proves I have a sufficient income to support such purchases.

 

07-3-2013 8:21 am  #50


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Numpydumpty wrote:

Does it matter that I paid for the baccy and booze using my credit cards, debit cards and cash while my friend used cash only? (stangely I have found that my credit card gives the best exchange rate compared  to Post Office, Banks, Marks and Spencer, Travel shops etc.)

What matters is that you both can prove it and can 'prove' that you both have sufficient income .

Particularly your friend with the prescription drug collection- if he is on any kind of benefit Customs may claim he couldn't afford to shop abroad.


"I, uh, let her out the trunk...heard what, err, She snarled at THEM...."

http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
 

09-3-2013 6:48 pm  #51


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Just putting the finshing touches to the SOT and the NOC to take with us to Dover tomorrow. I have bought an Olympus 573 hour recorder from Argos for £24.95 to take as well.

"Pigs might Fly" but you never know by this time tomorrow we may be on our way back with our goods. I doubt it, but at least it will show we are steadfast in having our goods returned with a NOC if required.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png

     Thread Starter
 

09-3-2013 7:33 pm  #52


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Numpydumpty wrote:

Just putting the finshing touches to the SOT and the NOC to take with us to Dover tomorrow. I have bought an Olympus 573 hour recorder from Argos for £24.95 to take as well.

"Pigs might Fly" but you never know by this time tomorrow we may be on our way back with our goods. I doubt it, but at least it will show we are steadfast in having our goods returned with a NOC if required.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png

Get acquainted with your recorder ... especially the 'hold' feature so it doesn't switch itself off
 


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png We don't do nice ... we do right!

When cross-border shopping, take your Statement of Truth etc and ALWAYS record the Border Force interviews and NEVER EVER sign their notebook ... Period!
 

09-3-2013 11:40 pm  #53


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Numpydumpty wrote:

Just putting the finshing touches to the SOT and the NOC to take with us to Dover tomorrow. I have bought an Olympus 573 hour recorder from Argos for £24.95 to take as well.

"Pigs might Fly" but you never know by this time tomorrow we may be on our way back with our goods. I doubt it, but at least it will show we are steadfast in having our goods returned with a NOC if required.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/errr.png

I'm guessing you bought the VN-750? Olympus make good recorders (I use one myself) but that particular model doesn't have USB so you'll maybe have slight problems transfering any recording to your PC for editing/transcription/posting.

Thats not a major problem , just something to bear in mind if the interview doesn't go the way you hope....and you'll need to buy a lead that jacks into the mic socket of your pc and maybe have to look for some freeware to transfer it to your computer.

That said you have bought a recorder that will more than do the job. It may well prove to be the bestes £25 you have ever spent! Any recorder is better, light years better, than none. Remember to have the printout of the Bobi-Foi with you to show the officer that his own regs say you may record the interview-the chances are he'll try and dissaude you by infering it is illegal for you to record.

Good luck and try and keep all your answers to the SOT-let it do the talking, even if the officer tries something like 'I have to hear you say it' , keep on refering him back to it  ie 'as you can see here on page 2 of the SOT...'


"I, uh, let her out the trunk...heard what, err, She snarled at THEM...."

http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
 

10-3-2013 7:12 pm  #54


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

anynews Numpydumpty

garry


START HERE, By answering these questions. http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=1526
Useful documents for download : http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewforum.php?id=34
Goods been seized, Start here.  http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=78
SOT Thanks to TBD. http://n2d.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=373
 

11-3-2013 12:45 pm  #55


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Did not get on very well.

Left South Devon at 7.45am. got home from Dover 11.55pm. NO GOODS - as expected.

Went into interview room with all paperwork and asked to be interviewed together and record the interview.

I Informed the officer of both our health issues and each others knowlodge of our health requirements and needs. I also asked for a joint interview on "Special Needs" grounds as my friend is dyslexic and he can not properly read out the contents of his SOT that he dictated to me and that I printed for him ready to sign in front of the officer.

After several minutes of me being as forceful as possible (without being rude) gave us 2 options:
Have separate interviews
OR
Leave without an interview


there was no way that he would move from this position - whatever we said.

Anyway, after travelling all that distance we said we would have separate inteviews.

He had no problem at all about the interviews being recorded - he just said that the recording could not be used in court.

Mine went fine - he said at the start of the interview that he did not want me to refer to my SOT during the interview - but I only needed refer to it twice for dates of previous trips.

However my friend (who they interviewed first) said he "totally went to bits" as he could not properly read his SOT or refer to it to refresh his memory of events and facts as he was expecting me (a "friendly face/presence") to be sat beside him.

I now need to listen to his recording before I can help him further and comment here.

I am now thinking about sending Plymouth 2 separate NOC's not a joint one as I intended together with our SOT's (signed this time) with an "addendum" to his relaling to his interview only.

I will be back once I have listened to his recording
 

     Thread Starter
 

11-3-2013 1:20 pm  #56


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Numpydumpty wrote:

After several minutes of me being as forceful as possible (without being rude) gave us 2 options:
Have separate interviews
OR
Leave without an interview


there was no way that he would move from this position - whatever we said.


 

Can I take it you insisted he call a superior and checked if a joint interview was allowed and that you pointed out the paragraph in his own guidelines that insists he makes provision for people with impairments? Unfortunately I forgot to remind you to print that FOI out - sorry, I really should have -as we have run into this many times.

Interesting that the officer didn't want you to consult your SOT during the interview, that just shows how terrified they are of it! And he should have known better than to try telling you that the recording can't be used in court because it damn well can (civil rules of evidence not criminal/PACE).

I would say your next step is for your friend to submit an official complaint as to his treatment during the interview. It won't get him anywhere but will help if he has to go to court. Seperate NOCs yes sounds like a good idea but referencing each other's NOCs. Submit a SARs each for you both to get the officers notes of the interview to compare with what was actually said...again that might prove useful if it goes to court or for the NPSU.

I take it neither of you signed anything?

 

Last edited by The Blocked Dwarf (11-3-2013 1:24 pm)


"I, uh, let her out the trunk...heard what, err, She snarled at THEM...."

http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
 

11-3-2013 1:44 pm  #57


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

OMG! I told my friend NOT TO SIGN THE NOTE BOOK -  MANY TIMES 

I think at the outset (I will check the recording) I told the officer that we would not be signing his note book. He said if that was the case at the end of the interview he would get another officer to counter-sign it. 

I DID NOT sign it but my friend DID?????????? He said he thought as another officer countersigned then he thought it was OK " I told him not to do it!" . I don't think he understood the potential consequences 
 

     Thread Starter
 

11-3-2013 1:57 pm  #58


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

Numpy I'm very disappointed for you.

Can you tell us what reasons were given for seizure as that will form the basis  of our advice should you need it.

As regards your friend I had a regular travel companion who was not in good health and I knew he could not be relied on to conduct himself properly at interrogation. Since my goods and car were at risk I had to stop taking him.


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

 
 

11-3-2013 2:01 pm  #59


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

BD can you point me in the direction of anything that says people travelling together can insist on being interviewed together other than having a responsible person with you?

I can't seem to find anything. Thanks


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png
Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.

 
 

11-3-2013 2:11 pm  #60


Re: Crazy Seizure at DOVER - Had to leave goods as Passenger taken ill !

eezyrider wrote:

Numpy I'm very disappointed for you.

Can you tell us what reasons were given for seizure as that will form the basis  of our advice should you need it.

As regards your friend I had a regular travel companion who was not in good health and I knew he could not be relied on to conduct himself properly at interrogation. Since my goods and car were at risk I had to stop taking him.

"Point Taken"

Just trying to help a friend save some money - will not in the future

     Thread Starter
 

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