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20-1-2014 1:53 pm  #21


Re: Passport control

 
It is fairly recent.

If they omnly ask for photo id, then by all means produce whatever you like with a photo on it. All im saying is that BF do have the power to request your passport.



I wonder if  we obliged to hand over our passport AFTER passing through imigration control,and after it has been established that said holder of passport is a verified a uk citizen and has already produced a valid document showing this?

or can we decline their request?

 

Last edited by warrior (20-1-2014 1:53 pm)


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20-1-2014 5:16 pm  #22


Re: Passport control

~~“157A General information powers in relation to persons entering or leaving the United Kingdom
(1)    The proper officer of Revenue and Customs may require any person entering or leaving the United Kingdom—
(a)    to produce the person's passport or travel documents for examination, or
(b)    to answer any questions put by the proper officer of Revenue and Customs about the person's journey.
(2)    In subsection (1) “passport” means—
(a)    a United Kingdom passport (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971),
(b)    a passport issued by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, or by or on behalf of an international organisation, or
(c)    a document that can be used (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport.
(3)    Subsections (1) and (2) apply in relation to a transit air passenger arriving at the passenger's final destination in the United Kingdom as they apply in relation to a person entering the United Kingdom.
(4)    For the purposes of subsection (3) a transit air passenger is a person—
(a)    who has arrived by air in the United Kingdom; and
(b)    whose journey is continued or resumed by air to a destination in the United Kingdom which is not the place where the person is regarded for the purposes of this section as entering the United Kingdom;
and the passenger's final destination is the destination of the continued or resumed journey.”
(2)    In section 4(3) of the Finance (No 2) Act 1992 (c 48) (non-application of enforcement powers in the Act of 1979 to certain movements between member States), after paragraph (g), insert—
“(ga)    section 157A (general information powers in relation to persons entering or leaving the United Kingdom)”

.I found it very difficult to find an actual copy of s157a to which you refer. It can be found under clause 99 of the Policing and Crimes bill.

We intend to handover photocopies of our passports next time we are stopped and asked for ''some'' photo ID.


 


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21-1-2014 12:18 am  #23


Re: Passport control

~“157A General information powers in relation to persons entering or leaving the United Kingdom

(1)    The proper officer of Revenue and Customs may require any person entering or leaving the United Kingdom—
(a)    to produce the person's passport or travel documents for examination, or


so in theory,once we are actually in/entered the united kingdom,after passing through pcp/imigration,then there is no obligation to have to produce our passports?
my staement of truth contails all info including passport number,,d.o.b,travel details name ect,obviously we know they ask for photo id and most people ony have their passports with them,will need to dig my old link card out or gym pass.

Last edited by warrior (21-1-2014 12:24 am)


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21-1-2014 9:56 am  #24


Re: Passport control

For some reason or other I cannot write text in the reply and then paste a quote. Whenever I paste anything it always goes to the top of the reply box. Also I cannot use text colours to highlight anything.
Anybody know how to fix it? It has been like this for some time and makes it difficult to post a coherent reply.

Back to business. Because of the above problem I cannot paste Dave's comment earlier in the thread-post #13.
He states that PCP use the Immigration Act to check passports whereas s157a is to provide customs officers with the power to request passports.

As you know when we are stopped they ask for' 'some form of photo ID''. It seems a useless waste of time since by then they know who you are having been pre-warned by PCP which we know for a fact as we heard them do so at our last stop.

At it stands I think you have to produce your passport when requested under s157a but it is an abuse of the power.


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21-1-2014 10:09 am  #25


Re: Passport control

i have refused a few times in the past,once the customs officer stated 'well your not leaving this terminal with out producing it', 90 mins later i left with all goods ,and didn't show my passport.

another time i let them see it but not actually touch it or take it away.

another time i produced my blue badge,and another occasion my driving license.

on another occasion i walked out and left my passport as they refused to return it at pcp and told me to wait,i refused and walked off and sat down somewere of my choosing and waited for it to be returned,funnily enough i wasn't stopped at the baggage area later,which i fully expected so on this occasion i approached ukbf and declared my goods and asked why i hadn't been stopped after being impeded at pcp,they weren't interested in my wanting to declare my purchases and told me to leave and couldn't give me an answer.

Last edited by warrior (21-1-2014 10:12 am)


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21-1-2014 10:37 am  #26


Re: Passport control

eezyrider wrote:

 As it stands I think you have to produce your passport when requested under s157a but it is an abuse of the power.

Words are not written into law for no reason ... they mean something and it is specific. 'entering' is 'cross the threshold of, pass into'  ... which is to my mind Passport Control. Once through that you have 'entered'. Applying 157a after that would mean that BF could apply it anywhere witin the UK ... and l do mean 'within' ... the pub, the supermarket, your home etc etc.

We know for a fact that BF and their predecessors intentionally misinterpret their own regs/laws to suit themselves. Take 'recording' for instance ... they still lie to x-border shoppers about this whenever they can.

157a has to be tested in the field so to speak. We have been waiting to do it ourselves but despite our minibus being very high profile through the port of Hull and making numerous journeys on the ferry ... it has never been stopped in almost 2 years!

We would record the whole thing and have questions such as 'Am l or am l not in the UK?' ... ' I have entered the UK, not entering ... are you stating otherwise?' ... 'What does 157a specifically say?' etc etc

Alas, the minibus remains unmolested!
 

Last edited by Smoking Hot (21-1-2014 10:38 am)


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21-1-2014 1:06 pm  #27


Re: Passport control

Smoking Hot wrote:

eezyrider wrote:

 As it stands I think you have to produce your passport when requested under s157a but it is an abuse of the power.

Words are not written into law for no reason ... they mean something and it is specific. 'entering' is 'cross the threshold of, pass into'  ... which is to my mind Passport Control. Once through that you have 'entered'. Applying 157a after that would mean that BF could apply it anywhere witin the UK ... and l do mean 'within' ... the pub, the supermarket, your home etc etc.

We know for a fact that BF and their predecessors intentionally misinterpret their own regs/laws to suit themselves. Take 'recording' for instance ... they still lie to x-border shoppers about this whenever they can.

157a has to be tested in the field so to speak. We have been waiting to do it ourselves but despite our minibus being very high profile through the port of Hull and making numerous journeys on the ferry ... it has never been stopped in almost 2 years!

We would record the whole thing and have questions such as 'Am l or am l not in the UK?' ... ' I have entered the UK, not entering ... are you stating otherwise?' ... 'What does 157a specifically say?' etc etc

Alas, the minibus remains unmolested!
 

We may well do the ''field testing'' in the next few days http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


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21-1-2014 1:36 pm  #28


Re: Passport control

eezyrider wrote:

We may well do the ''field testing'' in the next few days http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

You're easily on a par with us so you're well capable!
 


http://i45.tinypic.com/24uxqug.png We don't do nice ... we do right!

It's not that l have something to hide ... it's l have nothing l want to show you.
 

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