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01-1-2015 5:24 pm  #61

Re: Won

eezyrider wrote:

I'll bow to superior knowledge, but I was sure the next stop after Crown court for condems was the High Court?

I think this is correct. The Court of Appeal would come after the High Court.

The point I was trying to make is that the ECHR normally expects the individual to proceed as far as the Court of Appeal before it will accept that domestic remedies have been exhausted.

HIghlander will therefore have to rely on the caveat that domestic remedies should be accessible and not excessively complicated


01-1-2015 8:28 pm  #62

Re: Won

Hi Guys, thanks again for the responses. Now i'm not sure what to do. I didn't know there was such a thing as the Court of appeal, I thought the court of appeal was the last court something was appealed too. Forgive my ignorance.

From what the Judge said (I don't think you can appeal) or words to that effect and Council for the UKBF (you can only appeal on a point of law).

And the fact that a Judicial review is only for rich folks.

And I know that you guys are not lawyers, but I can't help feeling I've missed a step here somewhere. The last thing I want to do is appeal to the ECHR and have it rejected because i have not exhausted all of the UK potential remedies.

There doesn't appear to be any clear advice on the net. There is advice about Magistrates courts and paths etc... but i can't find anything after crown court.

Forget phoneing any .gov agency they don't know; or lawyers for that matter they won't return your calls (no money in it for them).

So any additional advice appreciated.



     Thread Starter

01-1-2015 9:16 pm  #63

Re: Won

You're absolutely right, it's almost impossible to find anything on the net particularly because condems is an almost unique process. For one thing there are very few civil proceedings which start off in a mags court.

I know Smoking Hot was assisting someone who was going to the High Court a couple of years ago but heard nothing more about it. That is the only case I know of. I think when it gets to that stage you seriously have to consider the financial and emotional cost as it can become a  blind crusade.
As I understand it you can appeal by way of case stated (within the time limit) to the Queens Bench division. I'm not sure if you need permission from the lower court.
You are expected to know High Court procedures if an L.I.P. as you will receive no help from the court. If you don't have the knowledge the judges will be seriously intolerant.
You will also be liable for a serious amount of costs should you lose and I think may be asked to underwrite these costs before the case is heard.

That is probably the limit of my knowledge of the High Court. Court of Appeal and above I know nothing about.
Procedures up to and including Crown are well documented on here and personally if I lost at Crown I would have to take it on the chin and walk away.

Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.


02-1-2015 5:21 pm  #65

Re: Won

Thanks SoL for the links they have helped me to decide. I will now proceed to the ECHR. Both of the other avenues are beyond my reach due to affordability and the lack of legal assistance. Could they make it any more complicated?

I now know what the Judge meant when he said (I don't think you can) after I said I intend to appeal.

And thanks Eezy for your reply also; However "I lost at Crown I would have to take it on the chin and walk away."

I never walked away from anything in my life that's not right and I'm not about to start now!

Will keep you all posted.



     Thread Starter

02-1-2015 11:52 pm  #66

Re: Won

H, I respect your decision whatever course of action you take.

My comment was based on my considerable life's experience and more recently that of a relative. He was taken to court for allowing smoking in his pub and by the time he came out after pleading not guilty he had a conviction and fines, costs and barrister's fees of £20k which almost put him out of business. A guilty plea at an early stage would probably have cost him nearer 3 grand.

So the point I was making was that justice comes at a price. We are all adults and have to be guided by our own judgement. I sincerely hope you get the right result and will follow with interest.

Please ensure you do not divulge any information which could identify you as Border Force will use your posts here as evidence against you in court.


06-1-2015 5:27 pm  #67

Re: Won

Well an appeal to the ECHR does not cost anything, I believe,  so if you have the time and motivation you might as well. If your case is accepted you can then apply to the court for legal aid.

Although I won my condemnation case and received an extra £100 in travel expenses and a miserable £99 in court costs, I estimate that I was still left out of pocket by a few hundred quid or so. Therefore I am also contemplating an appeal to the ECHR once my tribunal  appeal is concluded (if it ever is!!)


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